Okay. This subject is spilling over into other threads, including in the AI forums, so I guess we need a new politics thread.

Here are my requests:

1) NO FUCKING VITRIOL. Worsters come from all places on the political spectrum. If you want to disagree with someone, please do so intelligently and respectfully. If you can't do that, get a room (meaning, PM, email, etc.) Things got ugly in '08 (I'm also guilty as charged), but I know I'm speaking for all the mods when I say let's not have a repeat.

2) This is not a 'vote for the worst' project. I think you all know that, but I wanted to post a disclaimer in case anyone is feeling mischievous.

3) Please back up facts with a source and link, so that we can be fully informed.

4) Vote any way you want, but please vote!

OK. Now for the train wreck.

The incumbents:

Barack Obama - I think we all know about him.

GOP challengers:

Mitt Romney - Historically a fiscal conservative/social moderate-liberal, he's lurching to the right in a desperate attempt to win. Well, duh. I don't know much about him, but he seems like the quintessential one-percenter.

Newt Gingrich - I call him "The Grinch Who Stole America". His baggage has caught up to him, though, and I don't see him as a serious contender.

Rick Santorum - LOL

Rick Perry - Exists to make G.W. Bush look smart and competent. He's the only one who doesn't know his run is over.

Ron Paul - This is the guy with all those populist ideas like getting rid of the Fed and ending the war on drugs. He also thinks 95% of black men are criminals, and loves taking donations from skinhead groups, so don't count on him getting the nomination.

Jon Hunstman - I don't know diddley about him. Here's a link to his Wiki page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Huntsman,_Jr.

Michelle Bachmann - FAIL

Herman Cain - FAIL

Donald Trump - FAIL

Gary Johnson - the actual Libertarian candidate. Think Ron Paul without the racism and the crazy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Gary_Johnson I actually like him, other than his plan to cut Medicaid and Social Security and leave it to the states to sort out. That could be disastrous.

My early prediction: Mitt Romney will be the eventual nominee. This will be obvious no later than Super Tuesday. Rick Santorum will fight to the end because he is delusional. Newt will stay in until he's embarrassed enough to drop out.

I expect Obama to win, mainly because he doesn't have any strong opponents, but if the economy continues on the improve, he also has that going for him. Not to mention that he's a champion campaigner. He will probably paint Romney as an out-of-touch 1%er, which means Romney can say bye-bye to winning anything in the Rust Belt outside of maybe Indiana.

I expect the electoral map to look more or less like it did in '08. A lot of evangelicals would rather stay home on Election Day than have to choose between a Democrat and a Mormon. Democrats will keep a small majority in the Senate, and take back the House - mainly because people are so unhappy with Congress that it's going to be about voting out the incumbent for many people.

I think a lot of people are going to be really pissed off about this. I'm not looking forward to the aftermath of Election Day. You heard it here first.

John Huntsman is just like Romney, only he's doing appeals to the far right base out of desperation, not strategy. Former governor of Utah and former Obama administration ambassador to China. Also Mormon. He's out of the race if he doesn't win New Hampshire as that's the only state he campaigned in.

Oh yes, that's right. He said "They pick corn in Iowa. They pick Presidents in New Hampshire."

He's right, but way to be off-putting to the public.

(Eeeeee, my daughter works for that station ^^^^ highlighted above!!!)

Um, other than that my favorite family, the Duggars, endorses Santorum. That's all you need to know about him.

I confess I'm a Worster and a Republican.

Which means that voting for Obama while not an impossibility would require some serious thought and changes to my impressions of his management style.

At the same time, none of the current Republican candidates does anything for me. It's not their religion but the opinions they espouse. If there was a decent independent or libertarian candidate they would have a strong shot at my vote.

The best I can do is not vote for Obama but hope he wins (stupid I know because if I want him to win, why not vote for him.). Because while I dislike Obama's policies, I fear the radical Republicans even more.

Based on the current crop of candidates.

Insane: A simple request. Please fix the typo.

Jon Hunstman - I don't know diddley about him.

You folks have a nice time talking about this nonsense.

^^ I'm sort of like you (gambler) in reverse. I've always voted Democrat, and never Republican, but now I've realized that Democrats in office are far different than the Democrats who campaign. Meaning, they tend not to really practice what they preach. And the crazy laws they've been signing into effect lately, like the one that suspends habeus corpus...well, the Democratic party has officially lost me this time around.

Gary Johnson is looking better every day. And with a Democratic congress to prevent him from slashing social services. Perfect.

ETA:

I think I'll leave it misspelled just to annoy you.

fixed. eta: I never said I wouldn't be munching popcorn.

So Insane, if both parties are screwing up America just in different ways, who the hell do we vote for?

[edit]

It would be truly epic if there was a choice for "none of the above" on the election and if it got the most votes, then we'd have to have another election and nobody who ran the last time could participate.

[/edit]

I think Gaspy should go on the trail w/ Romney and stump for him, before he goes on his mission

I understand this isn't Vote for the Worst, but if it was we'd be supporting Jon Huntsman who only polled 1% in Iowa, but has refused to withdraw his candidacy.

Whoever goes up against Obama is going to have a hard time winning which is why the field is so weak and dominated by extremists. I'm not sure why Romney is risking it this time as he will not get another shot if he is nominated and loses to Obama. The GOP is split between traditional Republicans and Fundies and there isn't one candidate who can unite the two halves. For this reason I think Rick Santorum has a real shot at winning the nomination because the Fundies will not vote for a Mormon who is a perceived moderate. If it's Romney, then they will probably stay at home and not vote come the General Election. All this means there is an outside chance that Newt could end up with the nomination by default if Santorum's momentum dies down.

Ron Paul is the most goofy looking candidate-wanna-be since Ross Perot, IMO. Probably unelectable for that reason alone. Really, could anyone look less presidential?

I would like to see a Gingrich-Obama debate, simply because I think it would be entertaining on several levels.

I remember this thread from 4 years ago. So has Obama changed the World yet?

I'm trying to look up some of the third party candidates from the usual parties. Libertarians were covered already.

Stewart Alexander is the official candidate for the Socialist Party USA. Among typical beliefs for this party--universal health care, free education through college, guaranteed jobs--Alexander wants to legalize and tax marijuana.

The Green Party hasn't endorsed an official candidate yet. Of the two seeking the bid, Jill Stein seems more likely to get an official endorsement. She has had press coverage before for her books and teaching programs but has not held office. Stein started an educational speaking program called "Healthy People, Healthy Planet" where she goes to public schools and teaches them the link between pollution and poor health. Her focus is education reform.

Three people are running for the Reform Party candidacy. The Constitution Party has not announced any possible candidates yet. Ralph Nader is currently seeking a candidate to endorse for the presidency. Americans Elect don't do their first vote until 100 days from now.

Quote "smarterthanpickler":

I remember this thread from 4 years ago. So has Obama changed the World yet?

He's trying but has run into several road blocks, one of which is time. It takes more than 3 years to fix the mess Bush got us into.

I haven't been following it too much, but John McCain and George W Bush look like really normal people compared to most of the freakshow Republican candidates who have come out of the woodwork recently. Obama will probably win again because there is no alternative.

One of the main flaws of the American voting system is that it doesn't facilitate third parties. Other parties actually getting more power would force the dominant parties to do a better job or lose their status as an official party.

Agreed. And third parties never looked better to me in the past as they do now.

ETA: Speaking of which, I can see a 'scenario B' play out this year where a third party candidate does emerge. Maybe it'll be Johnson, maybe Paul, maybe someone else, but I'm sure it'll be someone to the right of center. This would give Obama a better chance of being reelected. I could see the popular vote playing out something like this:

Obama 47%

Romney 43%

3rd party 8%

Other 2%

This would put historically red states into play, electoral-vote wise. In other words, Obama can conceivably win in some of the purplish-red states (Indiana, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota). If this happens, shit will hit the fan. People will be calling for electoral reform, especially from the far right. And they'll call loudly.

Yes, that is the problem we have been having in Canada lately. The Conservatives are in power due to vote-splitting between the other parties. The majority did NOT vote Conservative, but they won a majority of seats in parliament.

Breakdown of our last election:

Conservative 39.62% (166)

New Democrats 30.63% (104)

Liberal 18.91% (34)

Bloc Quebecois 6.04% (4)

Green 3.91% (1)

Same thing in the UK, although they didn't manage to win a majority they still got a disproportionate number of seats, fundamental problem in any first past the post system parliamentary system.

Conservative 36.1%(307)

Labour 29.0% (258)

Liberal Democrat 23.0% (57)

It's hard for other parties that aren't nationalist to win any seats.

The UK and US seem so different politically, the Democrats are arguably slightly to the right of our conservatives, the mainstream parties here have been watered down considerably since Thatcher, until the early 90's Labour were a socialist party and supported completely nationalised industry, which would be inconceivable in the US.

I think Romney will almost certainly get the nomintion. But it could be the last person left in who isn't Paul or Romney, which will probably be Gingrich although he has no money, Santorum's poll numbers are already on the decline and Rick Perry is well... Rick Perry, it depends how strong the anybody but Romney sentiment is.

Quote "smarterthanpickler":

I remember this thread from 4 years ago. So has Obama changed the World yet?

As well as being a closet Neo-Nazi, he is probably also a cross-dresser. He looks the type.

I totally agree with joey on Obama's accomplishments. I think if Bill Clinton had accomplished the same things that Barack Obama has (at least some form of healthcare reform, the capture and execution of Osama bin Laden, the withdrawal from Iraq, the avoidance of the total implosion of the economy, etc.), we'd be acting as if Clinton had just invented sliced bread. It's ten times harder for a black man to gain recognition for his efforts than a white man in this country. And before you say anything about Affirmative Action, remember that Obama won an election - he wasn't given the job of President as part of some quota system.

He's far and away the best choice we have for President in 2012.

Although it is fun to watch the Republican freak show.