"I heard that these days VFTW members "vote" on who would be the VFTW dark horse."

Right. Then Dave chooses as he thinks best (and a fine job, too, I might add).

"For playing a character who SINGS. So it's not irrelevant at all. So there. "

But it IS irrelevant. For one thing, her singing was editted. For another thing, the Oscar was for best supporting ACTRESS... not best supporting singer. Russel Crowe won an Oscar for Gladiator, but if he were to participate in gladitorial combat, he would most likely lose. Being a successful actor does not make you good at the things you pretend to do while acting.

If she had won for best song, then you'd have a point, but she didn't, so you don't.

Alektorophobic - I have to agree with Kristy Lees Horse. Sure, the Oscar is for acting, but if her singing sucked do you think they would have given her a nomination? I doubt it. Do you really think the singing of a character is irrelevant to the performance they are being judged on? So I suppose Jamie Foxx, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Julie Andrews and everyone else with an Oscar for a role that focused on singing could have been a poor singer and still won their awards? Get real. Do I think Hudson is in the same league as Julie Andrews, no of course not. But I do think she should have made it further in AI in her season than she did because she is talented. As we all know, however, AI is not a program about singing talent.

"So I suppose Jamie Foxx, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Julie Andrews and everyone else with an Oscar for a role that focused on singing could have been a poor singer and still won their awards? Get real."

You are a fucking nutball if you actually believe this. Jamie Foxx did not perform the singing in Ray, you moron, he lip-synched to Ray's actual voice. All he did for himself was play the piano. So, do I think he was able to win an Oscar without being a good singer? Yes, I do, as you've just helped me prove. The Oscar was for ACTING. NOT SINGING. You do grasp the difference between acting and singing, don't you?

Let me point out something else though, since I'm sure all that will fly right over your head: in AI, you get ONE shot. You get to sing the song ONCE, and if you mess it up, tough beans. When you are ACTING (not singing, remember, they are DIFFERENT), you get as many tries as you need to get it right. Therefore, a person can sing beautifully in a movie and still mess it up in their one shot on AI. If you think Jennifer Hudson got all her singing done in one take, you're more of an idiot than you've already demonstrated.

Wow...so much venom. I'm surprised my reply caused such outrage. Certainly there is a difference between acting and singing, but the performance they won awards from includes both components. I never said Jennifer Hudson did all her singing in one take, I simply said you cannot separate the singing from the overall performance. Just as on Idol people don't just vote on a single performance...they also consider personality, appearance, previous performances, et. al. As for Jamie Foxx, he did do some of the singing (the earlier stuff) in "Ray"...and I believe he is a better singer than most of this year's Idol contestants, by the way. Why only make an argument about his performance, though, Dame Julie too far out of your reach for rabid criticism??

Why should I have to pick apart your entire argument when one piece of it is enough to prove you wrong? I don't give a shit if you think Jamie Foxx is a better singer than the idol contestants this year, because that is not the point. The point is that it is stupid to suggest that just because someone won an Oscar for acting in a role that had them singing, that they should have won a competition for singing, or at least placed better. It's also stupid to suggest that she wave the award in Simon's face, because A. it wasn't Simon that caused her to lose, and B. Her singing in the movie was edited, whereas singing on the show is one take only. Whoopdeedoo, you had 54 takes and managed to belt out a song that was part of an ACTING performance that won you an Oscar. That doesn't mean you're going to be perfect in the single performance you give on American Idol. Do you comprehend now what I'm saying, or will I have to repeat myself a fourth time here?

Alektorophobic-

I never said she should wave the award in Simon's face, Kristy Lees Horse said that. Direct your anger in the correct direction please. I merely pointed out that you cannot separate the singing from the acting when someone gets an Oscar for their PERFORMANCE as a whole.

And your are correct in saying Simon was not directly responsible for her being voted off, but if he had been as persuasive now as in previous seasons, David Cook would not have won after Simon's comments to him in the final. In his backpedaling Simon tried to claim "it sounded different on TV"...hmm, some sound editing, perhaps? AI runs on a 7 second delay, which means they can filter and adjust the sound as much as they want to. Yes on a movie people get to do more than one take. So what? On AI they may be judging you on your "live" performance, or on a rehearsal, depending on the week. There's plenty of manipulation in both formats.

And if you seriously believe that the millions of people who vote for AI voted based on one, singular performance...comparing sound quality alone, then you are seriously delusional. As you yourself pointed out in your initial response to Kristy Lees Horse: "AI is supposed to be a singing competition". Yes, it is SUPPOSED to be, but often isn't. Glad we can agree on something.

"I never said she should wave the award in Simon's face, Kristy Lees Horse said that."

Yes, I know. That was the point of this whole argument. Obviously things got off topic, mainly because KLH can't defend this ridiculous statement, so she/he goes off on dumb tangents in order to make the argument about something else. Since we're in agreement on other points, I will return to this original statement and say once again, "that is really dumb."

Alektorophobic -

Agreed that the conversation got off topic. I have been catching up on other VFTW topics and see you and Kristy Lees Horse are in fights all over the place. Sorry I got in the middle of one. I stand by the points I made on this topic, and you clearly stand by yours. I'm perfectly happy to move on from here if you are.

Peace, Moxie. It's just two arguments, really... this one here and the other is just me tired of watching KLH act exactly like the fantards we make fun of. We've got to rise above the fantards, and when KLH acts exactly like them, it's like retards battling retards, and it discredits the site. Er, don't get me started here. ;P Heh